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Toot by Josh Josh (babka.social)

@jmb @emilyk @serge Also I want to know exactly when "from the river to the sea …" shifted from its traditional meaning of erasing Israel to "Oh we just mean freedom and democracy". Because it still had its traditional meaning when I was in college and this sounds a whole hell of a lot like the attempted hasty cleansing of "America First" When Trump supporters with half a brain realized "Oh wait that has some nasty associations quick let's pretend those don't exist."

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Toot by Josh Josh (babka.social)

@jmb @emilyk @serge The traditional text of the hagadah at least gives a nod to non-Jewish suffering. And even if it doesn't, there are *numerous* times during the year where non-Jewish suffering and/or the general subject of justice/social action is dealt with, even in Orthodox communities. Either this reporter is just plain lazy or his subject is Jewishly illiterate, or both. And don't get me wrong, I'm not going to go around forcing Jewish literacy on people. But when you use your illiteracy to scold the Jewish community because you think we're not paying enough attention to the Palestinians that's when you become someone who just shouldn't be listened to on anything because you likely lack knowledge on a whole bunch of other stuff you confidently pontificate on.

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Toot

@calispera Yes it is morally complex, and I don't mean to suggest that it's simple by what I've posted It's more like I'm not going to slam Israel for its response from the sidelines and I have very little patience at this point with the people doing that because they've suddenly become internet polymaths in the last three months. 👁

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Toot

@serge @calispera Yes. As tragic and absolutely heartbreaking as civilian deaths are, and they definitely are I wish none of this were happening, war is ugly and horrible and the more modern it is the more ugly and horrible which is why it should be avoided whenever possible. "Possible" does not include countries/peoples just tolerating it when someone else comes in and abducts/tortures/rapes/murders civilians. And these kids screaming "Genicide!" at the top of their entitled lungs doesn't change one bit of this. 👁

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Toot

@calispera I think these things are discussable. But I don't think it's unreasonable for Israel to take the position that if they have to choose, fewer military deaths is preferable. Especially when it's Gazan terrorists, put in power by Gazan adults, that started this war. If the rest of the world wants this to be different, then it can send troops in to clean out Gaza and prevent October 7 from happening again. The world is unwilling to do that. So as far as I'm concerned it can shut the hell up until it's willing to put some skin in this game. I might wish for things like the security barrier not having gone up, but there's a reason that happened and it's not just because Bibi's an asshole. 👁