“Look, I'm just saying, I don't see why we can't support a diverse range of political opinions.” “You mean like on the environment? Police brutality? Capitalism?” “...Uh huh, and you know....other stuff.” “What other stuff?” “Oh, you know...like...trans stuff.” “Trans stuff? Oh, do go on.” “...No, no, I'm just saying! Some people have those opinions.” “Some people, huh? And you want to make sure that people with those opinions...what?” “Well, I'm just saying we shouldn't silence important voices.” “Wow. Okay. So you're saying we should support a 'diverse range of political opinions.' One of those 'political opinions' you want to be sure we don't exclude are the opinions of—not you, of course—but just certain other people who what? Don't like trans people? Don't think they should exist? Those are the 'important voices?'” “...Well, I mean, not exactly.” “Then how, exactly?” “Well, I just mean they should be free to express their opinions without feeling like they are being targeted.” “Okay. This is the part where you pause for a second and reflect on what you just said.” “See? You're already targeting me like I have a 'wrong opinion' which doesn't make me feel very free to share my opinion, when I feel like you're just going to judge me without even listening to me.” “That's your problem. I'm hearing you just fine. And in fact, your body right now is getting the message that you are fucking up in a very big way, you know it, and you're defensive about it. What's actually happening—the real shit—is this: You are recognizing that you are wanting to platform horrible people and also recognizing that this says something about you. Something that is your issue, and needs to be addressed by you. And instead of doing that, you're making it society's problem, like we should just appeal your bad feelings to the majority's opinion, and if the majority agrees that trans people are a problem, we should just go with that. Because that's also your opinion.” “I never said that's my opinion—” “No, you didn't. Because, again, you know it's a shitty opinion. What you really want is a space where someone else can make that opinion for you, without any condemnation, so that you too can feel empowered to make that same comment without expecting any condemnation. So you can point to their opinion and just say, “Look at this important voice in the discourse and what they are saying.” What you're actually wanting is to normalize bigoted discourse.” “You've gone way too far now, you asshole.” “I've not gone far enough. You don't realize that hiding your motives behind high ideals like 'protecting important speech' isn't hiding anything. You've revealed everything. For one, you've revealed that you think it's important that we let the people who hate trans people have a side in this discussion. Yet I have to ask you: Why aren't you arguing that people who agree with slavery should have a voice in our discussions?” “Well I...uh...” “Because you don't agree with slavery, that's why. Because you know it's a fucking non-starter. That anyone who shows up in a group with any random group of people wanting to 'just say' something pro-slavery without 'feeling like they are being targeted' is not a thing. It's not a realistic concern. You have zero empathy for the feelings of people who believe that.” “Well, yeah, of course.” “But you don't have those feelings about trans people. That's your particular brand of bigotry. Your blind spot. You think because you're not actively out there campaigning against trans people that you're not transphobic. And yet—you would actively work to platform and advocate on behalf of people whose ultimate message is that trans people are wrong and should not exist. These are not the victims here. Even the message about 'being targeted' is wrong. Victims are targeted. Abusers are called out.” “But people shouldn't be canceled just for expressing an opinion.” “...” “What?” “What's all this 'just' shit? I'm 'just saying', I'm 'just expressing an opinion.' We're all just 'justing' here. You think this lets you off the hook?” “We can't just—I mean.... conforming to groupthink is never a good thing.” “Says who? What's wrong with the 'groupthink' that slavery is bad?” “You can't keep using slavery.” “I can when it's a perfectly legitimate comparison to a completely abhorrent practice that is currently normalized by society but which will soon be looked upon with complete disgust by our descendants. Who will wonder why people like yourself went along with it.” “It's not the same thing.” “Why aren't there Lincoln-Douglass debates about slavery anymore?” “Because we ended slavery.”* “Was there ever any merit to the argument we should keep slavery? Ever? At any point in time, was it justified?” “That's looking at history through the lens of the present, a common fallacy—” “Shut the fuck up, Mr. Historical Scholar. The whole point of looking at the past is to, in fact, use it to provide helpful insights, guideposts, and warning signs for us in the present. We're absolutely supposed to compare ourselves to people and practices of the past for a needed sense of perspective. If for no other reason than to recognize that everything changes, beliefs that rule societies crash and crumble and eventually are looked upon as an abhorrent relic of a bygone and more uncivilized age. Also, because if you're well-versed in the history of oppression and social movements, you'd recognize what side you're on.” “I don't want to talk about this anymore.” “Well, if you don't feel empowered to walk around saying transphobic shit and advocating for the rights of bigots to a platform, what a marvelously productive conversation this has been.” “What's your problem? I've hardly said a word against trans people. I'll admit they make me a little uncomfortable, just here between friends and all, but this is a complicated subject and you're not making it any easier. You're not working to get me on your side here.” “Would you join the Nazi party if they were nice about it?” “What kind of question is that?” “The kind you answer.” “Of course not.” “And why not?” “Because they're fucking nazis. Fuck them.” “Holy shit, you just got it. Right there. Hold onto that feeling.” “...Okay?” “Do you feel like you're being dismissive of their needs? Do you feel like there's an important voice in a “conversation” being silenced? Do you feel like this particular 'cancellation' of yours is something you'll lose any sleep over? Worried about the rights of victims of your 'reverse-oppression against nazis'?” “Of course not, that's ridiculous.” “Because history has moved on and recognized and confirmed that as abhorrent behavior. It's easy for you to accept it, because you were raised with that belief. Trans people, however, largely emerged as a phenomenon during your lifetime. You get no points for being anti-Nazi now. Everyone should be anti-nazi now, everyone should be anti-slavery now, there are zero “woke points” awarded for these positions, which are socially-comfortable positions to hold. And consequently, advocating for these positions we've made very uncomfortable. People are silenced, lose jobs, get fired over saying them. Do you think that's a problem?” “I guess if I want to stick with my original position, I'd have to say it is. But of course it's not.” “Awesome, so budging on your position a little, are we?” “Yeah, I mean... I hadn't really thought about it that way before.” “I try to think about it this way: We have one short life, and we all are free to make our way in this life however we see fit, so long as we're not harming anyone else. Trans people aren't harming anyone else just by existing.” “But what about the kids—” “I'm cutting you off there because that phrase is literally the origin of every bigoted-line-of-reasoning since the dawn of time. Of course we should care about our children. We should also care about children who experience the world in a different way from us. Be careful any time you support an outrage campaign that demonizes a small group of people.” “I hadn't realized I was doing that.” “That's because we're all part of a system. Half the time I don't realize I'm doing it, either. The system enforces conformity by deciding what is acceptable discourse, and what isn't.” “I get it. So it's like when I say, 'We shouldn't silence important anti-trans voices' I'm actually helping make what they say acceptable discourse.” “Right, you help normalize it. You help ensure that the person doing the hate speech pays no real cost for it. And by quietly accepting it or brushing it off—particularly in your own social circles where you have influence—you make it that much easier for the next person.” “Yeah, I get it. That's why you got upset when I started saying we should let people like that have more of a voice. I didn't realize how much I was actually taking a stand with that position. I thought I was being neutral. I thought I was being fair and objective.” “Normally being fair and objective is a good thing. Other times, you just have to say to the anti-social bigots that want to come into the party, 'Sorry, you are not welcome here.' We should never do that to an oppressed minority, but Ku Klux Klansmen are not an 'oppressed minority'. It's just DARVO.” “What's DARVO?” “It stands for deny, attack, reverse victim and offender. It's a standard ploy abusers use when under attack. Neither can really win on the merits of their arguments, so they turn themselves into the victims, portray the accuser as the 'unhinged' attacker.” “Holy shit. That is literally the entirety of Trump's strategy about everything.” “And at last we both come to a point of common agreement.” “Good talk.” “Good talk.” * Note we very much did not end slavery; we just migrated to a carceral state. Not to mention the grim reality of human trafficking. We ended it in name, but not in practice. The point is: No one is willing to defend it by name anymore, even if they effectively defend the practice.